Forum:50 years, 50 characters
It's early days yet but I've been thinking about the fiftieth anniversary of Coronation Street next year and if there's maybe anything we can do to get in on the action. I know we're not a fan site, being concerned more with the facts of the show, but it's a big event and a good opportunity to perhaps attract some new people to the site. My idea is to run an opinion poll, asking people to vote for their favourite characters, and post the results on this site in the run-up to the anniversary. To maximise the voter base, we could advertise on sites like Digital Spy and Corriespace. I want this to be a big poll, like the various Doctor Who ones done by DWM and OG (sorry if you're not a Who fan and don't understand that reference). I don't know yet how it will be organised, or what the format will be, or how the results will be compiled, but I thought I'd introduce the topic early. I plan to do most, if not all, of the work myself, but I would appreciate some ideas on how to go about it. The reason I'm posting this so early is because I want to give myself a target of finishing most of the main character articles by the time the poll closes, and because I was so taken with the idea I couldn't sit on it long! Oh, and the title of this thread is NOT intended to be the title of the poll. So what does everyone think? David 17:34, October 11, 2009 (UTC) :Sounds like a good idea but it will take an awful lot of work to de-Corrienet and de-wikipedia some of the pages which have been copied over wholesale.--Jtomlin1uk 09:34, October 12, 2009 (UTC) ::It will, plus considering it will hopefully bring more people to the site I hope to finish the main Coronation Street page, plus History of Coronation Street, Rovers Return Inn and Coronation Street (Weatherfield) (probably the site's four main pages) before I advertise it, which won't be for months anyway. David 10:14, October 12, 2009 (UTC) ::: I've been meaning to put my two penn'orth to this one. As you say David, this site is "concerned more with the facts of the show". Besides, I'd have thought such polls would probably be ten-a-penny next year. So, trying to keep to the facts, I was wondering what are the chances that we could actually compile an official all time top appearances list? By 1994, we know that 21 characters had reached 1000 episodes (as listed in the 35th anniversary book), and by now I'd imagine the entire top 50 would probably consist of those with 1000+ episodes, so, as long as we have full cast lists from 1995 onwards (do we??), it would probably be possible. :::Whatever is done, its also worth pointing out that if, whatever top 50 it is thats decided on, could be started on 1 January at no. 50 (and each stayed for 1 week), then the no. 1 would be announced on 10 December - the day after the 50th birthday. With the calendar working out so conveniently, I think this would be the best way of revealing a top 50, if it could be achieved. :::By the way, you may recall one of the last times I popped my head in here I left a 'watch this space' teaser. Its come to my attention that this year the 9th is a Wendesday - so I'm aiming to set aside some time that day! Tara for now! TellyFan 14:09, November 22, 2009 (UTC) ::::Unfortunately we don't have full cast lists for 1995 onwards yet (or even pre-1995). Daran Little's 40th anniversary book gives some appearances info up to 2000 (who knows, there might just be a follow-up 50th anniversary book coming) but I do like the idea of finding out the 50 most prolific characters. As you say, we are more concerned with the facts of the show, but I see it as just a bit of harmless fun for the 50th anniversary, and if we do manage to find out the 50 most prolific characters prior to the anniversary, we can post them on the results page (under 'the other top 50', perhaps). As for any other polls that there might be - I wouldn't want to let what others do limit what we do. It would be very disappointing indeed if the anniversary came and went and no poll of this nature was run anywhere. We'd have missed the boat for nothing. David 18:57, November 22, 2009 (UTC) :::Of course, I realise the site doesn't currently have complete casts from 1995, but what I meant to ask was how far away are we from this being achieveable? I know John is very good at somehow finding them and adds new ones regularly - does John think all the gaps are likely to be fillable in the next 54 weeks or so? Incidentally I did produce a mock-up chart based on available data though its got little value other than as a foundation for further research. However I shall reproduce the top 5 (all those with confirmed 2000+ counts incidentally) for curiositry value: ::2977 Ken Barlow (up to 2000) ::2355 Rita Sullivan (2000) ::2146 Gail Platt (2000) ::2105 Emily Bishop (1994) ::2085 Dierdre Rachid (2000) ::I could continue further if anyone is sufficently curious to see more! TellyFan 23:56, November 22, 2009 (UTC) :::I'd be careful about accepting the episode counts from Daran Little's book as correct, our totals on a few characters from the years we do have cast lists differ from his. David 00:47, November 23, 2009 (UTC) ::::Regarding cast lists, we have gaps, as far as I can recall, in 1975, 1979 and 1981 and 1982 all of which should be "fillable" given time but 1989 to 1999 is going to be a real problem and unless someone comes forward who has tapes from that period, I don't see how those gaps can be filled...at the moment. As regards all other years prior to 1989, I would suggest the accuracy rating is about 95%. There are episodes where there are definate guest stars and (at the moment) we just don't know who they are and there are episodes where there are probable regular cast errors, such as Tracy Barlow and Nick Tilsley when youngsters - just because they were listed in "TV Times" for the week doesn't mean that they were in both episodes.--Jtomlin1uk 14:42, November 23, 2009 (UTC) What I wanted to add here was that a) yes, I am aware of the errors in Daran Little's book - many I picked up on in my own research several years ago when I tried to compile 'all-time' most seen lists year by year. I possibly picked up on some discrepancies that you may not have noticed, but in all this time since writing on this page before, I've not got round to digging my sheets out and studying them - partly why I disappeared from the discussion. I'd also wanted to say that, without watching all the episodes back, an 'all-time' list would never be 100% accurate - since we know from the DVD episodes that characters were credited/uncredited sometimes, despite their appearance or non-appearance in the episode. I don't think this means however that an 'approximate' all time top appearances list isn't something we can and should aspire to, in time - 95% or even 90% accuracy is better than nothing. It sounds like cast lists from 2000 are complete (or near complete) on here already (bravo!), so using what we know from Daran's book we could already probably achieve an approximation, I think. Of course, we can hope though that such a list will be available from official sources before the year is out, anyway. TellyFan 13:36, June 2, 2010 (UTC) Planning I'll let this sit on the backburner for a while, though ideas are welcome. David 19:17, October 16, 2009 (UTC) Here's the current plan, open to revision: *The poll won't be run here, I'll register with a survey website and set up the poll, and put the results on here. This means everyone who takes the survey takes it in one place, so the results should be easier to compile. *Rather than vote directly for favourite characters, people will give characters scores out of ten (or possibly five). It's a good way of avoiding a bias towards recent stuff and balances out votes for marmite characters. *There will be an opening round of nominations to decide what characters are eligible for voting. The alternative is for us to decide by committee. *On the anniversary day itself, as well as the No.1 spot being unveiled, a page will be created giving detailed results, including rankings beyond the top 50. David 16:37, December 30, 2009 (UTC) :Sounds like a good plan.--Jtomlin1uk 23:12, December 30, 2009 (UTC) Here's the latest: *Nominations will open on 1st March, and will stay open until the end of the month. The actual poll will open on 1st July and close on 31st August. A countdown of the top 50 will begin here in early October, and there will be an new result on the main page every weekday. *Current adult cast members will be automatically nominated, as well as any other main cast who appear between now and July. Adult cast members who were in the programme ten years or more are also nominated. I'll post a list in due course. *There will be additional questions on the poll, such as favourite character, favourite family, most wanted returnee, favourite wedding, funniest character, etc, and a few about viewing habits (when did you start watching, do you watch other soaps, etc). If you've any suggestions for questions in this category please suggest them! David 17:07, January 27, 2010 (UTC) :Most memorable storyline / favourite storyline (two distinct things in my book)--Jtomlin1uk 17:30, January 27, 2010 (UTC) Just an update to say the project is on hold for the moment. David 18:31, March 3, 2010 (UTC) I'll be taking nominations for this in a few days. How does everyone feel about 'The Golden 50' for a title? I know it sounds a bit like DWM's Mighty 200, but it sounds so perfect! David 10:46, April 3, 2010 (UTC) Moved section Originally posted at the Project Page Hi David, first time I've even looked at what's going on here for a while tonight, and saw this had got under way. What is the thinking behind listing characters more than once if they have had more than one actor? Does this not impede the chances of the likes of Tracy and Nick getting high up the chart? Regardless of who is playing them, the character is still supposed to be the same. If you're going to do that you might as well have the young Kenneth Barlow and Miss Nugent, and the older, wiser, Ken and Emily as seperate entries. Surely it should either be a poll of favourite characters, or a poll of favourite actors, not some ad hoc combination of the two? TellyFan 23:08, May 31, 2010 (UTC) :The thinking is that if people prefer one portrayal of the character to another, they can vote accordingly. It's really only Tracy Barlow and Nick Tilsley this will affect, I expect. Also, if you want to talk about this could you please use the thread in the Watercooler as I'd like to keep this page for nominations. David 01:46, June 2, 2010 (UTC) ::Well I still think it's a dumb idea personally. Has the character of Nick really changed that much through the different actors' portrayals? Someone like Steve or Leanne has probably been on a bigger 'journey' since their arrivals and so changed more. I've only seen clips of Ena from beyond Martha's death (the last episode I watched) but I know someone on here has made a thing about how much Ena changed in her later years. Auidrey I guess would be another. I'm not sure Jed was quite the same man when he returned, either. I just think it confuses things, if we are voting for characters, why should it matter that the actor playing them changed? Surely what is important is what has gone on on screen...unless it's changed to an actors poll! TellyFan 13:13, June 2, 2010 (UTC) :::Don't think it's a major issue myself. Characters have changed quite drastically with different actors playing them - Tracy Barlow being a case in point.--Jtomlin1uk 13:21, June 2, 2010 (UTC) ::::Yes, that's fine - of course Tracy has changed. But she hasn't changed a great deal, I don't think, since Kate Ford first took over the role - at which point I gather Dawn Acton did re-audition. If Dawn had been deemed still right for the role, one can assume that ostensibly Tracy would still be as she is now, since this is what the writers planned for her - well OK, not as far ahead as Charlie's murder, of course, but as I say Kate's Tracy didn't change all that much. So what she is now, is probably roughly what she would have been had Dawn carried on playing her. I don't think they saw Kate and radically changed their plans for Tracy so in that respect the fact it isn't still Dawn is incidental. You could argue that Dawn no longer being right for the role proves your point - which I'm not against per se. It's not the fact that Tracy is being listed more than once I have a problem with - because 2000's Tracy is different to 80s and 90s Tracy in persona (though Tracy was still a child and that is to be expected anyway, you could argue), but many other characters have changed too - who'd have thought 30 years ago that Gail would end up so meek! When I watch early 60s Emily, I see quite a different lady to the woman I see now. Not radically different, but still different. ::::I often read how people used to like Michelle Connor. Kym Marsh's personality has put them off her - maybe it was when she changed her name back from Ryder that she became so unlikeable! I'm not seriously suggesting Michelle should be listed twice lol, but she, and also the likes of Fiz and Claire, are examples of where the character changes somehow, and they lose popularity with the viewers because the character is not what it was. Sally was all sweetness and light until Kevin had his affair with Natalie. So ALL characters change. Some more than others, but they all do if they stay a while (Battersbys, Windasses anyone?) Why should the only ones who get more than one listing be ones where the actor has been changed. Wasn't Nick only changed this time because Adam Rickett is in New Zealand now? In which case, the change wasn't even by design - making this decision, to me, even dafter. TellyFan 14:04, June 2, 2010 (UTC) :::::Surely then if the recast didn't change your perception of the character, you can give the actors the same score? It won't affect the character's chart placing - if anything, it gives them a chance to chart higher. The only problem I can see is if two portrayals of the same character make the top 50, but I can't see that happening. David 15:19, June 2, 2010 (UTC) ::::::This is what I thought it was silly - the idea of the same character being listed twice in a countdown of characters. However, if that was how the votes went, then you would surely just have to list them twice? You could make it a top 51/52 though to make sure the list still contains 50 different characters. I'd still find it more interesting though personally to see if people prefer 60s Ken and Emily or modern Ken and Emily than comparing 90s Nick/Tracy and 00's Nick/Tracy. TellyFan 15:48, June 2, 2010 (UTC) :::::::It's the possibility of someone cropping up in the poll twice, however unlikely, thats the biggest argument against it for me. I liked the idea of seeing which portrayal of those characters whove been played by more than one actor people preferred, but how about for the purposes of the poll, characters will be considered single entities, whoever plays them, but we'll ask which actor they like best in the role as a bonus question (there will be a lot of bonus questions in the poll, as mentioned above). David 13:32, June 4, 2010 (UTC) ::::::Sorry David, I somehow hadn't seen your reply here. Seeing you post on DS made me come and have another look. Don't know how come I never saw it?! Next question lol - how come the poll ends so early? What's wrong with 30th September? Although saying that I see you're starting on 1st October. I'm perplexed how that's going to work out - I thought they were being revealed one a day until 9th December? Surely you start 21st October? Anyway, if you want to leave the survey open a bit longer and need another pair of hands to collate it before the countdown begins, I'm a willing volunteer. Stats are very much 'my thing'! ::::::By the way, I see you're a bit disappointed by the current turnout (one of the reasons I thought it would be better to keep it open longer) - well you've got at least one more pollster to come cos I haven't done it yet. To be honest, I'm not really one for filling in surveys very often, but I think it's my duty as a sometime contributor to this place that I do this one!!TellyFan 11:43, July 5, 2010 (UTC) :::::::The turnout has got better since I posted that, I've advertised it around the web (nearly 50 recipients from the Coronation Street Blog alone) so I'm quite happy about that - the DS thread though only seems to get noticed when its on the front page, so unless somebody else recurrects the thread that'll be it until I post a 'last chance' reminder on the last day of the survey. :::::::As for the dates of the results, there won't be results on weekends. Plus, 1st October is such a neat date to begin, a month after the poll closes. I'm giving myself a month to count up the results and measure voting trends, which will take ages. I'll remember your offer of help, thanks, I might take you up on that. Then on 9th December, the full 200 and the results of the individual questions. David 11:20, July 12, 2010 (UTC) ::::Yayy, I've finally done it lol. 20-25 minutes you reckon? I picked my ratings very consierately and after a short while realised I needed to make a note of my rankings so that they were correct in relation to each other - which did indeed lead to a re-evaluation of a couple of the scores I'd already given! I even had a spare column in my excel document cos I wasn't sure what to do with Tricia Hopkins and Brian Tilsley. I really wanted to give Tricia a score but having harldy seen her in action I knew it was 99% based on looks, while Brian I barely remember. I finished up, sensibly I think, putting Tricia in my blank column, rounding it up to a nice twenty, while Brian rounded up my "5" column to a neat 60! I took 5 to be the sort of 'indifference' or "meh!" rating. I quite enjoyed it actually. I've never really tried to work out my favourite and least favourite characters before. I think I can now name my top 10 (scores of 8 and 9) and bottom 5 (sacores of 2 and 3)! I shall list them on my profile page! :D I'm afraid I didn't do the partnerships or storyline questions. Trying to single one out felt impossible. Especially when you remember different things for different reasons. I did do the other character questions though :) ::::Do remember to message me if you'd like some help with all the number-crunching. :) TellyFan 01:44, August 31, 2010 (UTC) :::::Thanks for your offer but I've given myself a month, which should be plenty of time. David 10:46, September 1, 2010 (UTC) Eek! Somehow I forgot to add Natasha Blakeman. No one else seems to have noticed either! David 16:47, September 1, 2010 (UTC) The countdown begins... Okay, time to get down to business. No.50 goes up on the main page next Friday. What do people think about the presentation of the results? Say, whichever character is 50th, what should we say about them? A quick overview? List some of their best moments? Maybe a few little known facts about them? David 13:16, September 22, 2010 (UTC) :First appeared, Last appeared, played by, famous for...--Jtomlin1uk 20:53, September 23, 2010 (UTC)